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Dalekfan
Dalek Commander of the Outer Galaxies
United Kingdom
9429 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Sep 2009 : 15:38:42
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I love the colour scheme, but as I've lived with the poster on my wall for 25 years+ I guess I should be used to it by now!
Great card, Craig. |
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Edited by - Dalekfan on 16 Sep 2009 15:39:24 |
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Qexit
Timelord
United Kingdom
350 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2009 : 07:49:28
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That Orosco commission sketch is excellent Craig. It will make a great addition to your collection. I'm still waiting to see my redemption sketches from him. In the meantime, I was able to do a trade to get the other half of the Rich Molinelli sketch I needed. It arrived in the post this morning so here is a scan of the two halves reunited:
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One size does NOT fit all |
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Dalekfan
Dalek Commander of the Outer Galaxies
United Kingdom
9429 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2009 : 12:56:47
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Product group shot for my Collectors Page  :
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Edited by - Dalekfan on 17 Sep 2009 13:01:17 |
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Dalekfan
Dalek Commander of the Outer Galaxies
United Kingdom
9429 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 03:57:14
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I probably won't be popular for saying this but I think that many of the Mono Sketch cards on the 'Bay are being started at way too high a price or have an er, "ambitious" BIN. IMHO of course.
I would say however that the good Doctor Jas is an exception to this and is far more realistic with his pricing. IMHO. |
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Qexit
Timelord
United Kingdom
350 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 05:54:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalekfan
I probably won't be popular for saying this but I think that many of the Mono Sketch cards on the 'Bay are being started at way too high a price or have an er, "ambitious" BIN. IMHO of course.
Not an unreasonable observation given how few of them are selling. However, as I found out starting at a really low 'collector friendly' price results in the cards being virtually given away after eBay takes its cut. So while a really low starting price may attract interest, it doesn't seem to be attracting bids. I'm probably guilty as charged with BIN prices but I'd like to at least try and break even on the cards I am selling. That means an eBay selling price of around £43 to allow for eBay's 10% Final Value Fees, variable Listing Fees and Paypals 3.4% + 20p cut from the total cost including p&p. All of my Dr Who sketch listings end today. I am unlikely to relist those that do not sell but may post them on eBid where I can lower the asking price.
quote:
Originally posted by Dalekfan
I would say however that the good Doctor Jas is an exception to this and is far more realistic with his pricing. IMHO.
Doctor Jas has moved his prices around quite a lot and has still struggled to sell any cards. 99p starts are great for buyers but if they finish at only £15-20 that's a killer for a seller. As a dealer, he aims to make a profit but may have to reduce his prices to shift his stock and live with the losses. He is a very helpful and generous individual, as I have found, but he also has to be a practical and hard headed business person too. If he takes too big a hit on this set, then he may decide not to participate in the sketch card market in the future. If it's not possible to even break even, what would be the point ? |
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Edited by - Qexit on 18 Sep 2009 05:57:15 |
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Dalekfan
Dalek Commander of the Outer Galaxies
United Kingdom
9429 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 06:31:02
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Thanks for the detailed reply, Kevin.
So basically we're saying that they're not selling very well? I do agree that £15/£20 is a giveaway (for most sketches anyway!), and the vast majority are surely worth more than that...
Still, market forces seem to show that people aren't prepared to pay a "reasonable" price on the 'Bay, and as you say many are staying unsold.
Presumably the state of the economy in the UK has a lot to do with it.
I've sold a fair bit of stuff recently (not many sketch cards to be fair), and they seem to sell pretty well in the main.
I personally think that the sketch card market is a bit saturated at the mo, and it's that which is forcing the price down: nothing at all (generally speaking) to do with the quality of the artists' work.
Having said that, some artists' work has no problem whatsoever commanding high prices on that auction site. |
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Doctor Jas
Companion
United Kingdom
192 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 07:50:07
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I've got to be honest and say that I expected this set to do better. I broke 5 cases in total and at the end of the day I might cut even. The sketches went off to a good start where I'd sold a few BIN and quite a few have sold outside eBay.
The biggest problem is that the movies haven't quite got the same following that the original series has so not as many people are into the sketch cards for this set. Also market conditions have changed and prices of sketch cards have generally fallen quite a bit. I was very surprised to see a Henderson sketch from the Heroes set sell for £7 on US ebay quite recently.
If you look at the number of sketches that other dealers have sold then I would consider myself quite fortunate, however I'm a realist and apply the rule as I do in the property industry - it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. |
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Qexit
Timelord
United Kingdom
350 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 08:21:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalekfan
Having said that, some artists' work has no problem whatsoever commanding high prices on that auction site.
I'll reply to some of the other points later but just out of interest I had a quick look at completed auctions for September on eBay UK. Quite amazing to see that none of the artists on show is commanding high prices here in the UK at present. There are one or two Carolyn Edwards cards, a Sean Pence and a Cynthia Cummens that have sold for £100+ but they are very much the exception. The number of red numbered 'not sold' listings drowns out the few green lights 
I don't think the state of the UK economy has much to do with anything to be honest. Most people still have the same amount of money to spend right now that they had this time last year or the year before. All that has changed is that a lot have people have worked out that the term 'consumer confidence' simply refers to the willingness of ordinary people to buy things they don't need using money they don't have'. Rather a lot of them have now opted to not buy the things they don't need  But this is not the right place to jump on my handy little soapbox
I would agree about the sketch card market being a bit full up right now. For a number of reasons, there are also a lot of very average or samey cards in it. In the Doctor Who set, too many of the artists opted for character portraits (mainly of Peter Cushing !!) rather than interesting scenes and, of course, Daleks. Some of the artwork is great but dull while some of it is, sorry to say it, just plain poor. Several artists struggled with the SI card stock, so produced work below their usual standard. Kyle Babbit is a good example of that. Others were rushed to finish. Best example there, perhaps, being Amy Pronovost. While I think most of her cards are really cute, it's hard to imagine her having spent more than a few minutes each working on most of them. The ones I personally like the least are the Potratz and Hai quickie biro with a splash of paint Cushing portraits, along with most of the cards by McNeil and Jed Raven.
OK, time to go. Just found out I've run out of milk and I cannot survive for long without my cups of tea |
One size does NOT fit all |
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Qexit
Timelord
United Kingdom
350 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 13:45:37
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| Back to the main topic, I see another Sean Pence sketch has surfaced on eBay. A Peter Cushing portrait, so it will probably be there for a while I'd forgotten about Amyluke even though he's only 'down the road' from me in Wirral. |
One size does NOT fit all |
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jaseb
Companion
173 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 14:47:25
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I decided initially with this set as soon as I heard that artists had blank sketch cards I would support them over Strictly Ink. Most of the artists who I have dealt with have been a joy to work with. I also made a descision not to pay above box price + 20% for any sketch other than 2 artists, Pence and Potratz + Hai and only then if the cards were right for my collection. So far I have 15 out of the possible 24 artist at an average cost of £37.60 per sketch.
I have become amazingly choosy about what sketches and subjects I want. Unlike previous sets where any old card would have done for a start I have not done that with this set.
The reason that I am rambling on about this is because I believe that many collectors have decided the same. They will not pay above the odds, they will not accept any old sketch just because the artist only did 25. I do not think personally it is anything to do with the current market, but the changing tastes of collectors who will not jump on any old card just because it is there. There will always be bargain hunters who will bid on a 99p starting price auction, but they are not collectors, they are opportunists who will take advantage of a poor market with the smell of a profit later down the line.
I believe that this set will spell the beginning of the end for Strictly Ink, dealers will lose faith in the product and collectors will not be bothered until the higher end sketches start appearing from Barrie's vault.
I am quite happy with my 15 card collection, the other 9 artists will come, or they won't but one thing is for sure, I will not pay over the odds for any card. |
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Qexit
Timelord
United Kingdom
350 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 16:08:02
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Jaseb, you've adopted a sensible, well reasoned approach with this set. I'm pleased to see it has been working out for you. I hope you manage to track down cards for the remaining 9 artists you are still missing. If there are any amongst my 'spares' that are of interest, please get in touch as I'm certain we could do a deal
How Strictly Ink will fare in the future is anybody's guess right now. This latest set has sold out, so no problem there. If Barrie does start popping up select sketches in a couple of months time then he wont make himself too popular but he may also struggle to sell them as even good cards that have surfaced haven't been selling. According to the last update on the SI site only 1020 sketch cards were finally approved which would only leave 21 cards unaccounted for after inserts into 999 boxes. I don't know how many dealers or other buyers received a Henderson panoramic card as a multi-case incentive but none of them were pack inserted and that would account for 9 of the 'missing' 21. We'll just have to wait and see.
Whatever card sets come out in the future it's very unlikely I will be buying any from Strictly Ink or anyone else for that matter. My little dalliance with sketch cards is pretty much at an end. I'll get back to completing my Ray Harryhausen memorabilia collection and stick to lobby cards and such in the future. Even if they do take up a lot more space |
One size does NOT fit all |
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Doctor Jas
Companion
United Kingdom
192 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 17:36:55
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I agree with you guys. Dealers cannot afford to keep buying 5-10 cases of a product at a cost of a few thousand pounds and then sit on loads of unsold cards. Strictly Ink will be releasing another set later in the year (so it's likely to be out in 2010) but there is a danger that the product could be quickly dumped if the dealers can't afford to buy. If I was Barrie I'd be releasing a Hammer Horror Mono (just so jaseb could buy it ) and an Avengers Mono. Both sets would be a sell out if, like this Who set, they were limited to 999 boxes.
I'd be very cautious about releasing a set with 2500-3000 boxes. 2000ad was terrible for SI, whilst Big Screen Additions quicky sold out, dealers are still stuck with boxes and are selling them at a loss. Some of those boxes have been selling for £10-18 and that's because you can get an auto for £3, a base set for 99p and a film clip for £4 on ebay.
I personally do blame the economy. Generally people do have less disposable income so will cut back on "luxuries", these nice little items that you don't really "need". I work in an industry that has suffered as a result of the recession and can't afford to be lavish with cards like I was over a year ago and to be honest this may be the last set I deal in. |
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jaseb
Companion
173 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 17:51:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Jas
If I was Barrie I'd be releasing a Hammer Horror Mono (just so jaseb could buy it )
Stop it!!! |
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Edited by - jaseb on 18 Sep 2009 17:52:59 |
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sittin9duck
Timelord
United Kingdom
421 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 18:39:51
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 I don't think it's just the price that's stopping the sketches selling. There just is not the demand for them. The cards that have sold so far have pretty much been bought by the same few collectors and they are only looking to get one from each artist. The price of the cards has been much better than the last set for which they are still asking for nearly double the mono cards prices. Some of the artists have been very good with their prices and you can get just what you want. If you look at most other sets half the sketches sell for less than the box price. The Dr Who sketches have always been priced at 2 or 3 times the price of other popular sets like star wars, lotr and heroes. |
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jaseb
Companion
173 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 19:02:50
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In all honesty I agree with Craig to a degree, the vast majority of dealers have totally unrealistic expectations with the value of "Doctor Who" sketches overall. The exception to the rule is the friendly neighbourhood dealer who hangs around here with us collectors - decent enough chap, but behave with the Hammer Sh1t.
Having said that some of the properties mentioned in Craig's post have sketch cards that can sell in the thousands. LOTR and Star Wars especially. In all honesty that is a different ball park that personally I would not even entertain. Regarding some of the sketches it is like comparing a Porshe with a Lada. Lower end sketches will always raise a few quid, but the higher end is just unreal.
A major problem to my mind is that certain artists did not perforn to the best of thier ability. It's OK blaming the card stock but if some artists can produce brilliant results, then others should be able to produce passible results without having to resort to scribbling or doodling above a Daleks head to fill a card.
I think there is a market out there, but a very careful one that will not entertain high Buy It Now prices, no matter who the artist. The day (if ever) that someone starts a Pence Who sketch at 99p watch it fly. |
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Dalekfan
Dalek Commander of the Outer Galaxies
United Kingdom
9429 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2009 : 04:51:20
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Fascinating thread and a great read of all the "big hitters" in the sketch card game.
I find myself nodding in agreement with much of what is said, and in particular Jaseb's philosophy on collecting sketches.
With so many sketch cards around, perhaps now is the time for some manufacturer to finally get their act together and plan a New Series set which isn't based around sketches (although could include a few at the higher odds): I'd like to get back to a set with a good tranche of autographs (missing from the past couple of SI releases) and some chases other than sketch cards: maybe some hologram cards or cards redeemable for set visits?
I think I just want imagination to be applied to give the old horse a gee up.
Mind you, I still have a gut feeling that there aren't as many Pence sketches around as there should be: read into that what you will!! |
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Edited by - Dalekfan on 19 Sep 2009 04:52:34 |
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sittin9duck
Timelord
United Kingdom
421 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2009 : 06:16:31
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| It would of been interesting to see the case breaks of some of the dealers. I think some of the dealers collect which would mean some of the best artist/sketches just don't see the shop window. This would make you wonder if they were out there at all. In Jason 10 case there were 2 Pence sketches which is close to the odd. I like to see sketches in set but would also like to see some better chase cards, auto's etc. |
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sittin9duck
Timelord
United Kingdom
421 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2009 : 06:54:33
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The postman delivered two more cards today. A dalek sketch by Andrew Fry which is one of his returns. It's a dalek drawn straight onto the card which is just what I was thinking of asking if he could do for me.
The second is a nice colour Nik sketch although the Doctor is a bit orange. There's a few like that, he must of run out of skin tones.
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jaseb
Companion
173 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2009 : 07:33:28
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I was offered the same card by Andy Fry, I turned it down because there seems to be lot of Dalek cards done in a very similar style, no disrespect to the artist, a very nice card but a little "samey" for my liking. He is hopefully working on my commission now, which will be a full Dalek sketch.
Cheers for the kind words Dalekfan, opened any more boxes yet? |
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Doctor Jas
Companion
United Kingdom
192 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2009 : 05:04:21
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| Redemption sketches are on their way out as from tomorrow . Also been informed that the next release from Strictly Ink will be a very limited Avengers Mono in November. And I will put money on a Hammer Mono release in the new year. Only reason I say that is because it would be cheap to produce and if there are only 999 boxes then they would certainly sell out. Avengers and Hammer Horror also have a large fan base both here and in the US. Sorry jaseb but I do think it will happen in the new year!!! It'll give you time to save up for a case!!! |
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Qexit
Timelord
United Kingdom
350 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2009 : 06:59:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Jas
Redemption sketches are on their way out as from tomorrow .
You beat me to it |
One size does NOT fit all |
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sittin9duck
Timelord
United Kingdom
421 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2009 : 14:18:34
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My return from Jason Davies arrived today with his sketch that was used for the sell sheet.
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Qexit
Timelord
United Kingdom
350 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2009 : 14:25:27
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quote:
Originally posted by sittin9duck
My return from Jason Davies arrived today with his sketch that was used for the sell sheet.
Very nice indeed. Lovely depiction of the Doctor reading the Eagle. The sell sheet sketch must have been a nice bonus to get hold of too.
I received a scan of the inked stage of my commission from Gary Ochiltree a short while ago. He's hoping to have it coloured in and finished over the next week. It's looking pretty good already |
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Qexit
Timelord
United Kingdom
350 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2009 : 16:22:54
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Hmph !!! The person who bought my Jason Davies sketch card on eBay for £16.51 has now relisted it in his eBay shop for £39.99 or best offer. I wouldn't mind so much but he hasn't even done me the courtesy of leaving me any feedback yet  |
One size does NOT fit all |
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Dalekfan
Dalek Commander of the Outer Galaxies
United Kingdom
9429 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2009 : 03:52:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Qexit
Hmph !!! The person who bought my Jason Davies sketch card on eBay for £16.51 has now relisted it in his eBay shop for £39.99 or best offer. I wouldn't mind so much but he hasn't even done me the courtesy of leaving me any feedback yet
Bit of a kick in the teeth, that. |
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